<div dir="ltr">Niki,<div><br></div><div>Sorry for the delay. I'm afraid your PDF came through completely garbled so could not see what you are talking about. However, I would not necessarily expect big differences in the scattering pattern depending on the exact value of the parameters being used. Could you send the list of parameter=values you used for the two cases? I understand you used two different models. That will tell me if what you are seeing is reasonable or not.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>Paul</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 4:48 AM, Niki Baccile <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:niki.baccile@...20...6..." target="_blank">niki.baccile@...16...</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
They do look slightly different but I guessed that they were still too
close for two systems the difference of which lies in the rim - face
thickness environments.<br><br>
Niki<div><div class="h5"><br><br>
<br>
At 06:40 PM 12/4/2015, He, Lilin wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">They do look different to me if
you take a closer look at the first minimum of the curves you showed in
the graph. <br><br>
LH<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Niki BACCILE
[<a href="mailto:niki.baccile@...16..." target="_blank">
mailto:niki.baccile@...16...</a>] <br>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 6:28 PM<br>
To: He, Lilin; <a href="mailto:butlerpd@...4..." target="_blank">butlerpd@...4...</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Sasview-users] CoreShellBicelle Model help<br><br>
Hi Lilin, Paul<br><br>
thank you for taking the time to think about it. The document
online <br>
are not clear.<br>
Lilin, yes, that is exactly the sense of setting L>>R (cylinder)
or <br>
L<<R (platelet, bicelle,...) even if the mathematical expression
is <br>
the same.<br>
However, what I do not get is the following (sorry, I get into the
details):<br><br>
I obtain the same model curve if I set L<<R, a Rim Thickness= 0 and
a <br>
Face Thickness> 0 in the CoreShellBicelle, which should provide a
sort <br>
of platelet (no rim at the edges), and, using this time a Core
Shell <br>
Cylinder model with L<<R and a shell thickness (which should
<br>
correspond to the Rim) having the same value as the Face
Thickness...<br><br>
You can visualize what I mean in the attached pdf. The red <br>
(CoreShellBicelle) and green (CoreShellCylinder) curves are
coincident <br>
(do not mind the experimental data and the physical meaning of the
<br>
values which apply good to my system) but if you look closer to the
<br>
parameters, it should not be so, because I set the FaceThickness in
<br>
the bicelle (thye Rim of which is zero) equal to the thickness in
the <br>
cylinder, but these should not refer to the same thing!<br><br>
I hope this is not too messy, but it puzzles me quite a lot because
I <br>
want ot be sure that the model I am employing is correct.<br><br>
Thank you<br><br>
Niki<br><br></div></div>
"He, Lilin" <<a href="mailto:hel3@...17..." target="_blank">hel3@...17...</a>> a écrit :<div><div class="h5"><br><br>
> Here is my understanding:<br>
><br>
> These two shapes share the same mathematical equation for the
form <br>
> factor. We do need to change the initial parameters for
the <br>
> CoreShellBicelle model to make it reasonable.<br>
><br>
> LH<br>
><br>
> From: Paul Butler
[<a href="mailto:butlerpd@...4..." target="_blank">
mailto:butlerpd@...4...</a>]<br>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 8:56 PM<br>
> To: Mailing list for users of SasView<br>
> Cc: <a href="mailto:users@...2..." target="_blank">users@...2...</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Sasview-users] CoreShellBicelle Model help<br>
><br>
> In short, as I understand your questions the answer is yes.<br>
><br>
> Actually there is no requirement that L>R. L is defined as
along <br>
> the axis and R is the radially symmetric dimension. Indeed
with <br>
> L>>R it would be considered a long rod while L<R
would be a disc. <br>
> Also you could have L=R. So the base of the bicelle is a
disc. As <br>
> for # 2 yes the rim is the shell around the axial dimension,
while <br>
> the face would be effectively another disc on each "face"
of the disc<br>
><br>
> Hope this helps<br>
><br>
> Paul<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Niki BACCILE <br>
> <<a href="mailto:niki.baccile@...16..." target="_blank">niki.baccile@...16...</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:niki.baccile@...16..." target="_blank">niki.baccile@...16...</a>>>
wrote:<br>
> Dear Users<br>
><br>
> Can anyone provide some help on the CoreShellBicelle Model (1D<br>
> version) developed in SasView and referring to the documentation
below?<br>
><br>
>
<a href="http://www.sasview.org/docs/user/models/model_functions.html#coreshellbicellemodel" target="_blank">
http://www.sasview.org/docs/user/models/model_functions.html#coreshellbicellemodel</a>
<br>
><br>
> The following is not clear to me:<br>
><br>
> 1) It is said that that the CoreShellBicelle Model is developed on
the<br>
> basis of the CoreShell Cylinder. I suppose that what it means is
that<br>
> if one squeezes a cylinder in its length (Radius>>Length), one
obtains<br>
> a bicelle morphology from a cylinder. However, in the Bicelle
standard<br>
> parameters, it is the contrary, Length (400)>>Radius(20). Is
this<br>
> normal?<br>
><br>
><br>
> 2) In the CoreShellCylinder model, the Shell surrounds the Core in
the<br>
> axial direction, parallel to the length of the cylinder, as shown
in<br>
>
<a href="http://www.sasview.org/docs/user/models/model_functions.html#coreshellcylindermodel" target="_blank">
http://www.sasview.org/docs/user/models/model_functions.html#coreshellcylindermodel</a>
<br>
><br>
> Now, if I "squeeze" the cylinder in its length to make it
a bicelle, I<br>
> suppose that the shell will then correspond to the Rim Thickness
of<br>
> the bicelle. Is this correct? Or I did not figure this out at all
in<br>
> the rigth way and the Shell of the cylinder actually corresponds
to<br>
> the Face Thickness?<br>
><br>
> Thank you very much for your help.<br>
><br>
> Niki<br>
><br>
>
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<u></u><p><u></u>
Dr. Niki Baccile<br>
Laboratoire de Chimie de la Matière Condensée de Paris<br>
Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique<br>
Université Pierre et Marie Curie<br>
Collège de France<br>
11 Place Marcelin Berthelot<br>
Bat C Et 4<br>
75005 Paris<br>
Tel. 00 33 1 44 27 15 44<br>
Fax. 00 33 1 44 27 15 04<br><br>
<i>"Try it, and you'll see it"<br>
</i>
<br><br>
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